Felicia Shakiba will tell you that effective leaders know when to take a step back. Felicia is the Founder of CPO Playbook, a global consultancy that places people at the heart of its strategic blueprint. Being raised in a family of immigrant entrepreneurs nurtured her aspiration to build her own venture, which she was fully prepared to do. But she never expected the slow pace and perfectionist attitudes of the corporate sphere, or the unique challenges that come with being a female entrepreneur. Despite the obstacles, Felicia used these experiences as valuable lessons, learning what factors contribute to successful leadership (and by extension, successful organizations), and forging her unique approach in the process. Now, CPO Playbook is set to amplify its reach with an upcoming podcast of the same name. In this enlightening conversation, Felicia unpacks her trove of leadership insights. She stresses the importance of shared values as a cornerstone of exceptional teamwork and explains how reinforcing them fuels individual growth, sharing unconventional management strategies that have propelled her success along the way.
Felicia Shakiba will tell you that effective leaders know when to take a step back.
Felicia is the Founder of CPO Playbook, a global consultancy that places people at the heart of its strategic blueprint. Being raised in a family of immigrant entrepreneurs nurtured her aspiration to build her own venture, which she was fully prepared to do. But she never expected the slow pace and perfectionist attitudes of the corporate sphere, or the unique challenges that come with being a female entrepreneur.
Despite the obstacles, Felicia used these experiences as valuable lessons, learning what factors contribute to successful leadership (and by extension, successful organizations), and forging her unique approach in the process. Now, CPO Playbook is set to amplify its reach with an upcoming podcast of the same name.
In this enlightening conversation, Felicia unpacks her trove of leadership insights. She stresses the importance of shared values as a cornerstone of exceptional teamwork and explains how reinforcing them fuels individual growth, sharing unconventional management strategies that have propelled her success along the way.
Learn more about CPO Playbook. Listen to the podcast of the same name.
In this episode, we cover:
Quote of the Week:
“You can't just have values stuck on the wall. You need to be able to integrate what those values look like and feel like... throughout the organization through all of those processes and actually be rewarded for showing those values." - Felicia Shakiba
Hosted by Katherin Vasilopoulos. Made by Cansulta and Ethan Lee.
Music by © Chris Zabriskie, published by You've Been a Wonderful Laugh Track (ASCAP).
Songs used in this episode include: "Air Hockey Saloon," "I Don't See the Branches, I See the Leaves," "Readers! Do You Read?" "Short Song 020723," "Short Song 022723," "The House Glows (With Almost No Help).
Used under the Creative Commons 4.0 International License
[00:00:00.120] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
Hi, I'm Katherin Vasilopoulos. Starting my own venture wasn't easy. After a decade working in the corporate world I realized that so many things were out of my control, like layoffs and changes in direction. I didn't like the instability. I didn't want that to define my whole career and professional story. And so I left. I started my own company and achieved more than I ever imagined. Now I'm on a mission to share stories from extraordinary entrepreneurs who are changing the world and who never gave up on their vision.
[00:00:39.520] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
There isn't a single leader in the world who succeeded on their own. To lead an impactful organization means supporting a team of people who know and believe in the company's values. It also means allowing team members to move at the pace they want, take initiative, and act independently. Felicia shakiba encourages her team to go over her head. She's the founder of CPO Playbook, a global HR and leadership consultancy that puts people first in all their strategies. They're also launching a new podcast of the same name. Growing up in an immigrant family full of entrepreneurs, Felicia always expected to start her own business. What she didn't expect was the steep climb she was faced with as a woman entrepreneur and the slow pace at which she was forced to move in the corporate world. She found that those around her wanted to have everything perfect before making decisions. But these situations also allowed Felicia to identify what made organizations successful or not from a leadership perspective and how she could do things differently on her own. In this episode, Felicia shares an incredible amount of valuable leadership advice. She talks about why identifying a strong set of shared values is the best way to foster great teamwork, how these values also encourage personal growth, and the unique management strategies that have set her up for success.
[00:02:06.300] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
Hi, Felicia. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:09.240] - Felicia Shakiba
Thank you so much for having me here today.
[00:02:11.930] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
We're so, so pleased to have you here, and thanks for taking the time to speak with me today. You are a fantastic woman and I'm so excited to have a discussion with you today. You're the CEO of CPO Playbook, and I wanted to learn more about what brought you to this point today and also tell me a bit about your background.
[00:02:32.520] - Felicia Shakiba
Sure. I think just as I embarked on my journey as an entrepreneur, I had my first startup. Back then, I was just fueled with excitement and very strong belief in my ideas. And like many new entrepreneurs, I was focused on the possibilities, the potential for success and the positive impact. It wasn't until I became fully really ingrained in my company that I began to recognize the harsh realities of the entrepreneurial landscape, particularly for women. And as I navigated this world of startups and sought funding, I began to realize the daunting odds stacked against me as a female entrepreneur. It was disheartening. I remember sitting in a coffee shop with my lawyer feeling like I hadn't made it far enough. And he said, You've made it further than most. Only 1 % of women entrepreneurs receive funding, and my jaw dropped. I think today, the statistic is higher, closer to 2 %, but still not much has changed. And so as I move forward and integrate the work that I've done in HR and leadership, I have focused a lot on leadership and ensuring that there's fairness in the workplace and helping every individual and every team and every leader reap the benefits of their success.
[00:03:58.700] - Felicia Shakiba
And so a lot of that t also comes from my background in industrial organizational psychology and my assessments. And so I've worked in a lot of small, medium, large organizations, anywhere from a few people to 100,000 employees. And so in my background and in my experience, I've really identified what makes great companies successful. And it's very clear to me what made companies less successful.
[00:04:30.120] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
Tell me more about what that means. You found out what it means to be a good company versus companies that aren't doing so well. What were the learnings for you in that process, in your background in HR and leadership?
[00:04:42.960] - Felicia Shakiba
I think there's a lot to unpack when it comes to identifying what makes companies great or unsuccessful. But I can tell you that there is a particular, I guess you could say, competency that I have found over and over again in great companies. So I'm a big fan of failing fast. Not making a decision fast enough could be a significant challenge for professionals and entrepreneurs. And in the fast paced world, hesitation can lead to many missed opportunities and a delay in progress. Throughout my career, there was a particular instance where my reluctance to make a timely decision taught me a very valuable lesson about the importance of failing fast. My team and I were presented with an exciting opportunity to launch a new product, and the potential for success was evident, but there were risks involved. So for example, as the project gain momentum, I found myself grappling with indecision torn between proceeding cautiously to mitigate risks or taking a bold leap into the unknown. Days turned into weeks. And while I deliberated, the competitors were already entering the market, gaining a foothold and capturing the attention of potential customers. And the longer I hesitated, the more I realized that my inability to make a firm decision was causing us to fall behind and lose our competitive edge.
[00:06:13.980] - Felicia Shakiba
It was during this time that I came across the concept of failing fast. It's also known as rapid iteration or agile development and encourages entrepreneurs or leaders in general to make decisions quickly, execute their plans, and and collect feedback from customers or users as early as possible. And that idea is that if a decision or strategy is not working, it is better to identify it early, learn from the experience, and pivot if necessary, rather than sinking more time and resources into a failing endeavor. And as I reflect, I realized that my fear of making the wrong decision was hindering progress. I acknowledged that there would always be an element of uncertainty, and waiting for absolute certainty does lead to the missed opportunities. And so it sounds like an easy thing to do, fail fast, but in actuality, it's very challenging.
[00:07:18.650] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
As you're speaking, I'm thinking this is not a one step process. This is something that will take time to implement, especially across company wide. But also what I'm thinking about is at what point in life do we develop those decision making abilities? And at what point do we become more confident to go faster? Can you tell me more about your process in the past and how you've evolved to today? Because failure is not something we love to talk about. We don't want to say that we failed at something. We want to be successful on the first try. And we all know that that doesn't work that way.
[00:07:54.080] - Felicia Shakiba
Yeah. Well, I think in addition to the example I shared, this does not work for one person. This has to be a value that the team, the leaders, your coworkers, cross functional teams, must embrace. If you think of an example of one person owning this concept but has either no support or very little support, this person could actually be seen as a low performer in an organization. Let's say, for example, Jane has embraced this concept and she says, Okay, I have 80 % of the information. I don't need 100 % to make a decision, and I am going to make this decision to launch a new app. Let's just say, to market, but everyone around them says, Oh, it's not perfect yet. We don't want to present a product that's not perfect. And so that creates friction. And that could actually be a place where somebody might not be successful when adopting this concept. And so it's not so much about making sure that an individual adopts the concept. It is a value that the entire organizational culture needs to embrace. And without that support or encouragement or leadership, it will never be able to actually flourish and make the company go where it needs to go and be able to innovate and be creative.
[00:09:29.020] - Felicia Shakiba
The company will forever be slower than its competitors as long as their competitors are not adopting this concept as well. For a lot of the companies that I consult with, a lot of the work actually develops around values that are authentic and aligned with their aspirations. And this autonomy allows for a values driven approach. It's encumbered by pre existing cultural norms, which is often challenging in more mature organizations with established cultures. A startup's small and close knit team foster an environment where every voice is heard and input is valued. So this inclusive approach enables me to gain deep insights into the diverse perspectives of employees, making the values not just a top down decree, but a reflection of the collective spirit of the organization.
[00:10:24.960] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
That's exactly what I was going to say. It sounds like you're using a top down approach to integrate the values that you hold dear into the organization. And it sounds like this is a philosophy that is going to permeate every employee's performance and allow them to really live the values of the company. And And as you said, it's probably easier to do it from the get go as opposed to trying to integrate it into an already established, bigger, clunkier company machine type of thing, if I understand correctly.
[00:10:57.770] - Felicia Shakiba
Absolutely. I mean, if you think about diversity, equity and inclusion, which is a very popular topic, the emphasis of fostering diversity and inclusion in the values is particularly gratifying. The founder is committed to creating a workplace where everyone feels valued, respected and empowered to contribute their unique strengths. And this focus on inclusivity means that the values are not just aspirational but genuinely represented in the diverse fabric of the organization. When you think about working with a larger organization, there are absolutely 100 % individuals and leaders that have this concept that cherish these values of diversity, equity, inclusion, that understand the competitive edge that it doesn't just give their team but the organization. But in a larger company, it's much more difficult to permeate a value within the organization all across because you have more employees to convince that these values are going to what makes us successful as an organization. It's not impossible, but it does take a little bit more time. Sometimes those people who can't embrace change or a different mindset or be flexible, those are the individuals that may not be with that organization for very long.
[00:12:19.920] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
People go to companies not just to earn a living, but also to find what it is that makes them happy. There is a sense of happiness in the service that we offer. And if we don't jive with the company values, you're right, people tend to leave because they're like, It's not the right fit for me. And you, as an HR specialist, must see this all the time.
[00:12:40.610] - Felicia Shakiba
Yeah, I do. And I think that it's what makes people exit when they don't see their manager or team have the same values as they do. I think most exits stem from those values of being either similar or different. But I think that a company that no one knowing their values and knowing them well and understanding them to the point where, okay, now what do we do with them? So for example, some companies, they will have great values and people must be very excited to join a company with great values. But at the end of the day, that's only the start of the work is creating those values. Actually implementing those values in the day to day, in and through all of the people, projects, or functions or processes within the organization. I'm talking about performance management, learning and development, onboarding, succession planning, talent acquisition. You can't just have values stuck on the wall. You need to be able to integrate what those values look like and feel like and behave throughout the organization through all of those processes and actually be rewarded for showing those values. So, for example, I've seen companies say, We value creativity, we value innovation.
[00:14:04.170] - Felicia Shakiba
But when someone takes a leap of faith and gets creative, they're not the ones getting the promotion. It's someone who stayed consistent. Being an expert in this field, I think what really matters is how are you able to best integrate values to the point when you ask any employee, What does your company stand for? They're able to recite exactly what those values are. And then that in turn actually creates the employer brand. And that's how you get great talent to join your company.
[00:14:40.260] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
You sound like a very curious person, a person that is also in a creative state because you are an entrepreneur and many entrepreneurs are very creative. I want to go back a little bit and ask you to describe your earlier youth and tell me a little bit about what drove you to get to this point. Tell me about your past a little bit.
[00:15:05.010] - Felicia Shakiba
Growing up, I was surrounded by family of entrepreneurs. My father had his own business for 30, 40 years. My cousins all had businesses. They all came from Iran and migrated here to the States and started from scratch, started from nothing. I have a lot of cousins. I have a ton of cousins and I have a ton of uncles and aunts. My mom is one of eight. My dad is one of 10. They all have children who have children.
[00:15:40.590] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
Wow.
[00:15:41.030] - Felicia Shakiba
So you could only imagine when we got together, we're very, I think, ambitious family. It was interesting because I thought that this was normal. Growing up as a kid, I thought, Oh, yeah, it's normal to have your own business. It was the world I was in growing up. And when you're boxed in as a child into very limited exposure to the world, that's the only thing I knew. It was interesting. And then when I got to my world of entrepreneurship, I just didn't realize the female founders had such little financial support.
[00:16:25.100] - Felicia Shakiba
It was really disheartening. I thought about it and I said, this is each where I grew up. This is how I thought I was supposed to take my life. I'm just following where my family went. And then when I look back on it, I think, oh, yeah, I guess a lot of my family entrepreneurs were male. So I started seeing myself as a little bit of an outlier, but it didn't really phase me. I was feeling very comfortable being creative and being innovative and starting something new and learning and being curious. Before I started my first HR tech startup, I went to a conference. It was the HR tech conference, and this was back, I don't know, in 2015 or so. And I was so curious. I spoke to probably every booth, every customer, anybody who sat down next to me. I was talking to them. And I thought, I want to know where's the break? Because I understand that not a lot of employees know about HR processes or what we do. I wanted to bridge the gap and help people understand how to take their own careers without having to wait for a leader or a manager to tell them what to do.
[00:17:41.650] - Felicia Shakiba
I wanted people to understand what to do so they could take their careers to new heights and take initiative into a business and add more value. And it was a win, win, win for everyone.
[00:17:52.780] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
You talked a bit about ambition and watching how your family operated in the earlier years. Tell me, what did you do did you learn by watching your father and the men in your family operate as business owners and you being a woman?
[00:18:10.090] - Felicia Shakiba
Well, I think the bottom line was that companies who treat their employees fairly are the companies who become successful.
[00:18:20.570] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
I love it.
[00:18:22.700] - Felicia Shakiba
Yes. I know that my dad didn't have all the answers. My cousins, they didn't have all the answers. And I think that actually took me into industrial organizational psychology, which is where I got my education. And I thought, how do I double down on this concept and ensure that I can do more to add value to this concept of treating people fairly and with kindness? And I can tell you that a lot of people, I think in the business world, believe in themselves as being kind. But there isn't a lot of self awareness on how they're casting a shadow on their employees or coworkers. By that, I mean, what do people say about you when you're outside of the room? I think a lot of people, especially leaders, are very much engulfed by the pressure of the board or their executive team. Those are real pressures. Those are real challenges. When you're under that much pressure or challenge, leaders tend to focus on the bottom line in getting things done. But when you're just focused on that, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be, in addition to that, and in order to get there, understanding the challenges, strengths, abilities, aspirations, career goals of your team, that is what gets you to a greater bottom line.
[00:19:55.970] - Felicia Shakiba
I as a manager or a leader, I am wildly successful when the people who work under me go above me, leapfrog me. That is my definition of a widely successful leader.
[00:20:08.500] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
By you saying that, it's humbling and it's actually beautiful to hear from my perspective, just because sometimes we can lead from behind or we can lead from not being the one at the helm. You can be the one watching your people grow and achieve better things. And as you're saying, if they can leapfrog you, then you've done your job. And I think that's a wonderful place to be in a very advanced place to be, really. Instead of saying, Oh, I'm the manager, I'm at the top, and everyone has to follow what I say. There's definitely a maturity in that way of thinking. Let me ask you a little bit about your entrepreneurial process. Tell me more about what was the mindset behind your leaving a corporate setting to then launch into your own endeavor.
[00:20:59.600] - Felicia Shakiba
I think it comes down to what I've shared with you before, and that the values just weren't there for me. I was looking for a place that supported the growth and how fast I was learning and growing. I think I was learning and growing faster than the organization could accommodate. I can give you an example, and it provides a unique picture of the gratitude that I have for this work by seeing people blossom in their roles. I did this awesome coaching project, and I did it for a group of about 20 brilliant engineering leaders spread across the world. They were each responsible for the riving innovation, leading teams, and making crucial decisions to keep their organization at the forefront. I connected with each leader virtually. I was immediately struck by the rich diversity of their backgrounds and experiences. Some hailed from bustling cities, while others work from serene landscapes, each bringing a unique perspective to the table. But despite the geographical distance, they all shared a common goal of driving excellence in their engineering teams. And so the coaching journey began with a thorough assessment, a thoughtful conversation, where I took the time to understand their strengths, challenges, growth areas.
[00:22:25.470] - Felicia Shakiba
And as I took time to build trust and rapport, the engineering leaders found themselves opening up about their vulnerabilities, allowing me to guide them on this transformative path of leadership. But the coaching didn't stop at honing leadership skills. Fostering a cohesive team dynamic was paramount. Through the discussions and the feedback, the engineering leaders began to appreciate the power of collaboration and synergy within their teams and across their teams. Almost immediately, I saw these leaders bloom like vibrant flowers. They started to see things differently, approaching problems with innovative solutions and creating a supportive atmosphere for their teams to thrive. And what makes this experience particularly unique was that these leaders were all growing together versus one by one. And that was this exponential power of the work that I've been doing. And just being able to see them all grow together, it was out of this world. I just want more of all of that. I wanted to have that feeling all of the time. And I'm doing it, and I'm excited to do more of it.
[00:23:45.610] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
It sounds like what happened there is vulnerability was the catalyst for better collaboration and better growth.
[00:23:55.680] - Felicia Shakiba
Well, I think it takes a great leader to tap into that vulnerability into themselves to eventually tap into it for their team members in a way that is psychologically safe. That's a rare leader to find because a lot of times, many employees feel like showing their weaknesses are going to get them in trouble. And for a leader to be able to bring that out and have that be transparent enough in a private setting, of course, but to build that trust enough where they can turn that vulnerability into a development focus or even allow them to say, Hey, it's okay not to be great in everything. This vulnerability that you have is not a priority for the work that you're doing. And having those deep conversations about what's important and what's not important and what's okay to have a weakness in. And hey, if you have this development area, then let's figure out together how we can get you where you need to go. That is where you get high performing teams.
[00:24:57.670] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
I agree completely. And as you're saying this, I'm curious, and if you're willing to open up about this, what's your vulnerability in business?
[00:25:10.910] - Felicia Shakiba
Great question. I never waver on what's important to me. I think fairness is a huge value for me. I'll give you an example. I took the top five strengths Gallup assessment, and one of my strengths was belief. What belief is defined as, according to the Gallup survey, is that I don't do anything that I don't believe in. Maybe it's a weakness, but I also feel like I need to put myself in places where my clients, my team, the people that I work with, where we value the same thing. And so I think in business, where it might be a weakness is just the fact that there's a lot of people who are willing to maybe not dig deep enough into other things are fair or see a competitive advantage if things are not fair, whether it be for them or their friends or their team. And I understand that. I don't want anybody to be seen as weak in front of their leader or their team or anything like that. I would fully support that they do whatever it takes to make sure that they are being successful. But sometimes it's just difficult for me to continue creating this trustworthy relationship or building rapport with someone who doesn't have that value of fairness and mind.
[00:26:40.950] - Felicia Shakiba
And so maybe my development opportunity is to say, Hey, not everybody is going to think exactly like I do. And maybe it's about the journey of that relationship growing versus my just shutting down and looking the other way.
[00:27:00.600] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
Well, because we don't talk about it out loud. We want to show people our great super powers and our superwoman sides when we're entrepreneurs. And especially if we're in leadership positions, the idea of having a vulnerable side is not always accepted, or we don't want to show it. But we need to be aware of it. We need to know what it is so that when it does present itself, we make a decision. Do I let it out of the bag and show people what it is, or do I just keep it under wraps and then work on it behind the scenes? You can approach it in two different ways, depending on what it is that you want to do. And if you think there's any value to the people around you, then you show it. And then it makes you a bit more human as well to your employees. So let me ask you this, where do you see yourself going in your entrepreneurial role and leadership role and HR? You sound like you have so much knowledge when it comes to management of people and the theories behind it. What's the future look like for you?
[00:28:01.750] - Felicia Shakiba
Yeah, good question. Again, you're just full of great questions. Currently, my focus lies in nurturing and amplifying core values to serve as the bedrock upon which transformative people programs are crafted. As CPO Playbook, we do everything from design onboarding programs and building talent acquisition strategies to executive coaching performance management strategies. But by intricately weaving values into the fabric of our strategic designs, I'd like to say that we pave the way for businesses to reach their ultimate capabilities and in tandem orchestrate an environment wherein employees thrive. So that's the focus. And then I am so eagerly anticipating the launch of my own podcast this coming August where I'm excited to share insights about the operational prowess of successful organizations, featuring amazing experts from the industry. I'm hoping that this opportunity sheds light on the strategies that are employed by successful top tier companies. And then thirdly, I think my aspirations extend to the expansion of just the business in general, where I'm driven to tackle an array of obstacles faced by leaders. My ultimate goal is to craft workplace environments that foster excellence and fulfillment for employees, which make organizations widely successful. And the prospect of contributing to the creation of such amazing places to work is both inspiring and gratifying.
[00:29:49.510] - Felicia Shakiba
And I look forward to making more significant impact in this realm.
[00:29:55.080] - Katherin Vasilopoulos
Many thanks to Felicia Shakiba for sharing her insights. You can learn more about about CPO Playbook through the link in the episode description. If you enjoyed my conversation with Felicia, we would love it if you could leave us a rating and review wherever you listen. Your feedback helps us to better serve current listeners and reach new ones. And So, She Left is made by Cansulta and Ethan Lee. We'll be back next Wednesday with a new episode. Our music is by Chris Zabriskie, edited for your enjoyment. You can find a list of all the songs you heard here in the Episode Notes. I'm Katherin Vasilopoulos, and thanks for listening.