In this episode, we're exploring the theme of family. Family is something that many of our guests talk about. The way our families shape us and leave lasting impressions is something we can't ignore. Often, it's only when we look back that we see how much our family has influenced us. Join Katherin, Cansulta's Founder Alex Kapelos-Peters, and Show Creator/Producer Ethan Lee as they dive deeper into some of the family stories from our guests so far. They'll share some of their own stories, too. If you haven't listened to our previous episode about family, we recommend you go back and give it a listen. We're trying something completely new, and we'd love your feedback. You can fill out a brief form through the link in the episode description. Thanks for listening, and enjoy the episode.
In this episode, we're exploring the theme of family.
Family is something that many of our guests talk about. The way our families shape us and leave lasting impressions is something we can't ignore. Often, it's only when we look back that we see how much our family has influenced us.
Join Katherin, Cansulta's Founder Alex Kapelos-Peters, and show Creator/Producer Ethan Lee as they dive deeper into some of the family stories from our guests so far. They'll share some of their own stories, too.
If you haven't listened to our previous episode about family, we recommend you go back and give it a listen. We're trying something completely new, and we'd love your feedback. You can fill out a brief form through the link in the episode description.
Thanks for listening, and enjoy the episode.
We'd love to hear your feedback!
Here's a quick 5-question survey. Your answers will help us to make the show even better: https://forms.gle/5JnfCUWbgLRw1NTa8
Hosted by Katherin Vasilopoulos. Made by Cansulta and Ethan Lee.
Music by © Chris Zabriskie, published by You've Been a Wonderful Laugh Track (ASCAP).
Songs used in this episode include: "Air Hockey Saloon," "We Always Thought the Future Would Be Kind of Fun," "Short Song 020623," "Short Song 022823."
Used under the Creative Commons 4.0 International License
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:00:00]:
Hi, I'm Katherin Vasilopoulos. Starting my own venture wasn't easy. After a decade working in the corporate world, I realized that so many things were out of my control, like layoffs and changes in direction. I didn't like the instability. I didn't want that to define my whole career and professional story. And so I left. I started my own company and achieved more than I ever imagined. Now I'm on a mission to share stories from extraordinary entrepreneurs who are changing the world and who never gave up on their vision. In this special conversation about family, I'm sitting down with Cansulta CEO Alex Kapelos Peters and show creator and producer Ethan Lee. If you haven't yet listened to our previous family themed episode, we would encourage you to go back and give it a listen. Family is a topic that comes up a lot in our interviews and Alex, Ethan and I decided to take a closer look at some of the family stories we've encountered so far while sharing some of our own. Like I mentioned in our last episode, we're trying something completely new. If you'd like to provide feedback about this episode or any others, please fill out the very brief form through the link in the episode description, which we'll mention again at the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the episode. Well, hello, everyone. Today we don't have a specific guest, but we do have two very special people on the podcast. You may have heard their names at the end of each episode. If you're a regular listener, we have Alex Kapelos, who's the CEO of Cansulta, and Ethan Lee, who is our producer extraordinaire on and so she left. So I'd like to welcome you both to this episode. And Ethan, I'd like to invite you first to tell us a little bit about what this particular episode is going to be about.
Ethan Lee [00:02:02]:
Yeah, so every episode is a little bit more buttoned up. We like to produce, but for this episode, we noticed that our listeners are listening to things like Millennial Minimalists. Thank you if you're joining from that show. We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle and Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus. And also, we did not have a guest for last episode because suddenly our schedules know things happen. So we created an episode completely based around family. I tried my best to think of something that would deliver value to our current listeners and earn new ones without feeling like we were cheating people who tune in every week to listen to a guest speak.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:02:42]:
And Alex, thank you so much for joining us. You're always in the background and we know who you are because of your name, but now we get to find out what you sound like. Welcome.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:02:53]:
It's really a pleasure and a bizarre experience, actually, to be participating in this show. Ethan, what you mentioned was also great is know since we're a new show. We're very much looking to make sure that we keep producing a show that's really excellent, that really delivers on what people want to hear and talk about. For me, I'm really excited to have this opportunity to try out some new formats, as you said. So really looking forward to getting feedback from some of our listeners and to just trying out some different approaches to see if there is something in addition to the interview format that might work really well for us down the line.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:03:31]:
So, Ethan, you just put together an amazing family episode. Do you want to tell us a bit more about that, the process?
Ethan Lee [00:03:39]:
Yeah, I think we had been talking about it a little bit behind the scenes for a while about what kind of took us by surprise with the show, is how deep the conversations actually became beyond just advice. Beyond just...without naming names, some other shows that are in existence based around women's entrepreneurship, typically the direction that they go in. And we found our unique voice, I think, especially in those early interviews like Margery Kraus and Sabrina Fiorellino, who were talking about their families. And I'm not sure if this was the same for you, Katherin, but there was a thing that sort of clicked in my mind about, like, oh, we can explore this territory, and we can talk about really, really difficult things as they relate to entrepreneurship and just explore their lives in a bit more of a deeper way that would translate to other women entrepreneurs who are going through those same struggles.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:04:32]:
Yeah, I agree. It's not just numbers and spreadsheets. The family experience is very crucial because it shapes you in your earlier days and listening to the stories, you get these examples, you're going, oh, wow, that's amazing. Like, for example, people who had military backgrounds or their own parents were entrepreneurs or caregivers. All those things definitely paint the picture for what's going to come up next in your life as a child, watching your parents do all those things.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:05:01]:
If I think to most of our guests that I can recall most of the time, their parents and grandparents also came from kind of nontraditional backgrounds. And as well, we heard a lot from people where the family aspect is from more of a support perspective, so right. Like being surrounded by a spouse, a partner, a parent, friends or family who are encouraging and supportive. For me, it's been really interesting kind of reflecting through the show on different ways in which family can have an impact both on family and this history of family and how that impacts our own decisions and comfort. Like, for me, for example, I'm a second generation Canadian, so I don't have a kind of direct kind of immigrant experience. But I do know, for example, for my grandparents being immigrants, that was very important on both sides of the so, you know, similarly, just like, became very involved in the community, but many of them came from the know, came without speaking English. And so all the challenges around kind of community and integration there.
Ethan Lee [00:06:09]:
Yeah, well, that idea of legacy that Thilde Peterson had really brought up in her episode, it was a pivotal theme in that conversation, for sure. It's so interesting that even if you're doing something in the moment, you don't know how that's going to affect later generations, for better or worse. Luckily for most of our guests, it's been for the better. But I think that's something that surprised me as well. Because in my own life, I don't know if a lot of the things that have driven me forward have come from some professional achievement, as much as I'd like to believe that, like, oh, this thing really drove me forward, winning the gold medal for my program or something really drove me forward. But it's moments like Sabrina Fiorellino's grandfather passing away that I really relate with. Like, my grandfather just passed away in November. He was suddenly diagnosed with stage four cancer. And it was a huge shock to my family. My family on my mum's side is absolutely massive. So he loomed really large in all of our lives. And at the time when he got the diagnosis, all of his children were in the room with him. And I think about 2 seconds after hearing the words like, you have stage four cancer, he just sort of went quiet for 2 seconds, and then he looked around the room and asked if everyone else was okay. And it's moments like that, they plant little seeds. They plant seeds of ideas that ultimately impact where you end up going in both your personal and professional life.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:07:33]:
Yeah, definitely. I think that's something that was, as you mentioned, I think Margery mentioned in one of our first episodes, the concept of work life balance versus integration. Even though it's easier for us to compartmentalize who we are personally and professionally, it's not really real, especially now. Right. With remote work culture and how all of us, especially in entrepreneurship most of the time, these are not nine to five, clock in, clock out kind of roles. And so who you are at work very much becomes a reflection of who you are as a person and vice versa.
Ethan Lee [00:08:04]:
I'm curious to hear from you, Katherin, because we had encouraged our listeners to reflect on their own experiences while they listened to these stitched together moments. We haven't really dived into too much of your experience in terms of your family and its impact on you. You've talked about it a little bit. I know that your family comes from Greece and that you're a child of immigrants, but how did these conversations impact you? Can you remember specific moments, maybe with Surabhi, for instance? I know that that was very impactful for you.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:08:32]:
Yeah. Surabhi's conversation made me cry during the taping, and I had to mute myself. So anyone who didn't notice that, well, now you know. Thanks Surabhi. If you're listening, but it was one of the richest and most beautiful stories where she describes know, don't wait till your parents are gone before starting to get to know them and asking them questions. And then also sometimes parents do something when you're a child and you don't understand why they're doing it. And it's only later that you realize, oh, they were protecting us, or they were trying to show us something or an example. And as a child you wanted none of it. And as an adult you realize, oh yes, that makes a lot of sense. The maturity comes with time and reflection, et cetera. But in my case it was always watching my parents and not necessarily from their words, but from their actions. And it's always been hard work. Be reliable, do the right thing and be useful to others. And I think that's a big theme right now. I'm hearing it over and over in different conversations and different podcasts where people who are depressed and they're like, what's the purpose of my life? All that can go away the minute you become of service to others. And if you feel useful, even if it's for one person, if you're helping one person get through something difficult or you're volunteering somewhere and you're helping that one person, that's what gives you purpose. So those were the main mantras or values that I adopted quickly and especially watching my father wake up at the crack of dawn and prepare his little lunch in a lunch bag and never bought food outside of the house. He was always so economical and working hard and working twelve hour days in factories and coming home and then just asking us, what'd you learn in school today?
Ethan Lee [00:10:19]:
And what did your father do?
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:10:22]:
He worked in a factory. He made fur coats, as many Greeks did when they came here to Canada. And it was a huge industry in Montreal and many, many people got to know each other through that industry. And I remember many uncles coming home or coming to visit and they had their hands weren't soft hands, let's just put it that way. So you knew that these were men who worked hard all day. They were not so like my mom calls it computer hands.
Ethan Lee [00:10:57]:
Computer hands is great.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:10:58]:
Yeah, isn't it? So when you shake someone's hand and you feel the calluses and you see stains on them and you see broken nails or even missing fingers, you know that these people have worked hard.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:11:09]:
Oh my goodness.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:11:11]:
So that's the experience of seeing hard work and nothing replaced is hard work. And I don't want to sound like I'm on a soapbox, but there's no substitute for it. You want something, you have to work hard for it. And no one's going to give it to you. You have to go grab it. No one's going to show up and give you something on a silver platter, and you're going to have to compete with people sometimes and a lot of them to get to where you want to go. But in the end, it's what you put into it.
Ethan Lee [00:11:40]:
I'm going to prod this a little bit with my computer hand, just a little bit more because I definitely have computer hands. We've seen this with some of our past guests who's come who come from these backgrounds, but there is, I think, a little bit of a generational divide between how we think about showing love and showing support and the people who come from those hardened backgrounds. Like you mentioned, I think my mom's going to kill me a little bit for this, but I think that the way love is expressed in those second generational families is, why aren't you doing this? Why isn't this happening? It's a little bit more hard nosed, and it's not necessarily a sign of anger or anything like that. It comes from a place of care. But it's hard to recognize that when you are a child of immigrants. Did you both have that same sort of experience? I know, again, I've heard that a little bit, maybe alluded to with you, Katherin, and some of our guests in the past.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:12:35]:
I mean for me, I'm not a child of immigrants. I'm a grandchild of immigrants. My parents are also quite different in their approach, I would say. And I was struggling for the good way to say that, appropriate way, very loving, but not necessarily expressive that way. We are not like the big kind of hugs and kisses and lots of support. It was more similar, I think, to Katherin, what you described of just really true, authentic. I guess it's really more like, what did you learn today? Got that question all the know, and there's just this expectation of, like, you work hard and you will reap the benefits from your work, and if you don't do work, then you can't expect anything. I don't know how much that has to do with the influence of immigration so much as just kind of the culture of so many other factors, right. Of is it urban versus is it rural city life? And then just kind of people's, professions and life experiences, the history of where someone's coming from.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:13:36]:
I have a question for Ethan.
Ethan Lee [00:13:38]:
Yeah.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:13:41]:
What do you remember your mom telling you the most? Oh, what's the repetitive thing that she would tell you?
Ethan Lee [00:13:52]:
She's going to kill me because I know she listens to this show. And I do love my mom a lot, and I know that she cares immensely about my well being, and that's where this comes from. But I think growing up, it was really difficult. My connection to some of the harder moments in this show is just a lot of my issues come from inside. It's not really based around my circumstances. I come from a loving family. We were never scrabbling for coins or anything like that, but it was difficult when I heard my mom tell me to just do something, just like, oh, just go exercise, just go make friends. Because it comes from a place of wanting me to be in a better place and wanting me to be comfortable. But it's also like when you deal with those internal things like anxiety and depression and all of the baggage that comes with that, it's harder to process how that's actually done. And I think there is a little bit of that disconnect when you're not able to share what that experience is like with someone. So it becomes difficult to have that connection and we're just sort of now unraveling that together. It's a really joyful experience to be able to do that with a parent, but it doesn't take away from at least the way that I processed it internally at the time, the difficulties of doing that.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:15:16]:
So in essence, she was just saying, Just do it.
Ethan Lee [00:15:20]:
Well, she wasn't yeah, Arnold Schwarzenegger, but in so many words, yes.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:15:27]:
But she was encouraging you to go out and figure out a way to do it. It wasn't just like there's no instructions. It's just as a child, you need to figure out how to navigate your world. And maybe that's what she wanted you to go out and experience. Because we don't have instruction manuals. We really don't. And maybe some kids are better at the social game than others. Some kids are better at the academic game than others. And you need to be a little bit more well rounded. And maybe your parents, they see that and they're like, he needs to figure this out. We can't tell him how to do it. So I think that's a quite forward thinking mother to try to encourage you to go out and figure it out on your own so that you can write your own playbook on what this means.
Ethan Lee [00:16:09]:
It relates to Sabrina's story where I believe her grandmother, who came from a generation that was completely different, had told her that she wasn't desirable as a woman because she wasn't married at 18. And I know that that comes from of course, there's that cultural divide, but it comes from a place of wanting to be genuinely helpful. And that disconnect. Again, you think you're being helpful as a parent or as a guardian when you say that, and there's that disconnect. You can't really realize the way that things are processed differently as a younger generation. I think my generation, maybe younger people, are more we're wanting that deeper engagement. We want that pathos and we want to think more about certain things, and we don't have that immediacy that's given to us instructionally from those older generations. I'm not sure.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:16:58]:
Yeah, I think that the generational factor is really strong and it's not a good or bad thing. It's just different. Right. So I think we see that and hear about that a lot when it comes to employment and we talk about kind of what you were saying, Katherin, earlier, about kind of impact and what people are looking for from their lives. But, yeah, I think in that whole spectrum, like you said, Ethan, like, what we're all expecting is quite different. What does it mean to kind of have support or direction from your parents, from your family? Both of you as well have had non traditional careers and professional lives and so I'm kind of curious what that felt like, how the response was.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:17:38]:
I know in my case it was more about at first they're like, oh, you're leaving behind security and seniority. And then when I explained what I was trying to do, they just said, well, we know you're smart, we'll defer to you, you know best. And that was an incredible uplifting statement to hear instead of expecting, well, I wasn't expecting it, but I thought maybe they would have harsher words for me or they would try to dissuade me because it seems like a risky thing to do. But I told them the risk is calculated, the risk for me is worth it, and I know that I'm jumping into the void, but watch me go. And they said, okay, you know what you're doing, we're supportive and good luck, and that's it. I also told them, well, remember who raised me right. And they're like, Ha. So when you remind them that you are a product of their efforts, then it kind of makes them feel more secure and reassured because, like, yeah, we did do a good job and so we trust you. We trust that you're going to do the right thing. And, yeah, I don't regret it at all. Ethan, what about you?
Ethan Lee [00:18:50]:
I never let myself forget how supportive of a family I have. They've always supported if there's ever been something that I wanted to do, it doesn't matter how precarious it is, they support me all the way because they know that I'm going to put 110% in, often to my own detriment. But I've been extremely fortunate that I've never really had to second guess what I want to do and I've never had to second guess my parents support of it. I think the biggest gift that you can give your child as a parent is just support for the thing that they want to do, because if you have that, you can really move freely and you can find the opportunities that are going to bring you to the next level much easier. And it's easier for you to work harder at something when you know you have your parents support. If you encounter any resistance along the way, it's just another obstacle to overcome. We have too many obstacles in professional life anyways, adding a parent's disapproval on top of that for one reason or another, not saying that it's always ill advised or that it's illegitimate or anything like that, but it's another roadblock, and luckily, I haven't encountered too much of that in my life.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:20:00]:
Their support gives you wings. Sorry, Red Bull...
Ethan Lee [00:20:02]:
Oh, yeah. Should we announce our new sponsor?
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:20:09]:
But yeah, their support gives you this levity to go off and try something new without feeling like, well, if it doesn't work out, I'm a failure. No, it's just you tried it out and it just didn't work out. But in this case, if you have your parents support, I think that it takes you much further.
Ethan Lee [00:20:25]:
Yeah, you're right.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:20:27]:
We have enough obstacles as it is.
Ethan Lee [00:20:29]:
My parents provide me with ample Red Bull as well. So maybe that's part of the...
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:20:34]:
Yeah, there's some entrepreneurial doping happening there. I don't know. But it's a great point you guys raised. Just trying to think back to the compilation and the episodes and the people we've met so far. I'm actually trying to remember if there were any of our guests who weren't appreciative of that, who didn't have because thinking back, I think all of the guests that I can remember do credit not their success, necessarily, but the ability for them to be able to pursue whatever their path was is because they got the green light. Maybe not handed the money or something like that, but I think everybody expressed that they had a parent, like, in the earlier years, of course, of their careers and their journeys, who was at least supportive or at least not critical. And, yeah, I just kind of wonder to what extent is that a correlation or a cause that contributes to people's kind of success in this area, right. Of being able to make it and do it? Maybe that is, like, a really important factor. And maybe, unfortunately, we haven't heard from guests about parents and family who weren't supportive, because maybe those who don't get that support, unfortunately, have a much bumpier ride.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:22:07]:
I think there's also things like your relationship to money that determines how you then manipulate money and the transfers from one place to another and how you view it. Is it just a currency? Is it just a way, a means to an end? Or is this, like, your complete identity? And those are maybe questions we haven't addressed very deeply in the show and maybe something to look into. But I would say yeah, Ethan?
Ethan Lee [00:22:32]:
Yeah, well, I think it's come up a couple of times with Stacey Tisdale and then also Jesse Francis. The way that they discuss money in those episodes, you really get the idea quickly that, oh, spending even a little bit of money on something that's meaningful to your child, as long as you're not spoiling them, it can be an act of support in a way that's more meaningful than, oh, here's a shiny new thing. I remember Stacey had talked about there was a family in her community that was, I believe, impoverished and the mom had spent money on something like a Nintendo, like the newest Nintendo console, and all the other parents around her were horrified that she would do something so frivolous. But to her, the value of being able to provide that for her child to make them feel, quote, unquote, normal, it really changes your perception of how you should be spending money and the things that you should be putting money towards. And oftentimes that answer is like family. It's the people who are closest to you, it's the people who mean the most in your lives and it's flipping the script and being able to put money where it impacts other people the most. Yes.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:23:42]:
And also, I forget which guest, there was one moment where they would have money to go spend at the thrift store.
Ethan Lee [00:23:49]:
Yeah. Jesse.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:23:50]:
Jesse. Yeah. And so giving your child some money and giving them some independence on how they choose to spend their money is wonderful, because the child can spend it on five lollipops or they can put in their pig bank or do whatever they want to do with it, but it gives them some form of control over their spending money. And that's a massive lesson, as opposed to saying, oh, there's no money and I have no control over anything, this gives your child a bit of independence, control. And I think that's also something that the story is very valuable to me to hear that parents have that ability and the generosity to give their child those initial years of here's how you're going to learn to have a good, healthy relationship with your money, as opposed to being told money is scarce and you're going to have to work hard for it, or whatever the messaging is.
Ethan Lee [00:24:43]:
Yeah. I was thinking we should maybe round things out by moving away from parents and talking about siblings, because we had featured Jackie and Cassie Collier on the show, who were a pretty interesting duo in the fact that they were sisters, working together pretty seamlessly to operate a business that builds custom board games, bundle. And even though it was one of our more lighter episodes, I think it's just as meaningful to explore those sibling relationships because it's different than a parent. They have a different dynamic between them.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:25:13]:
I can't say anything about this. I have no siblings. I've been jealous of them my whole life. I always wanted some and I was very upset with my mum that they shut down the factory for me. Being part of a big Greek family, I have a lot of cousins. I do imagine that that's very different than siblings. I imagine it's a much more intimate, close relationship with siblings, but I am very lucky to have a pretty big cousin pool and that has definitely had a huge impact on me and my kind of family and personal life as well. And also I'll extend that and then I'll shut up because I want to hear from you too. But I think something else that I've noticed in my kind of personal circle in the last few years is also the concept of chosen family. And I think that that's really important. We have so many people who might not necessarily be part of a biological family, maybe don't have parents, siblings or others around biologically who are part of their family. But I have so many friends who have really found themselves with their chosen families in their community that can have the same really substantial impact on someone as the biological component. So that's just something that I would throw in there as an added talking point. But, yeah, I'd love to hear from you guys about the sibling relationship because I'm really curious about it always being jealous and yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts there.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:26:38]:
Well, that's well said. Alex. I think your family can take on different meanings, and you can make up your family as you go along, too, if, you know, you pick and choose. But Ethan, how many siblings do you have?
Ethan Lee [00:26:49]:
So I just have one sibling, and I say sibling to other people because they're non binary. My sibling, James, was actually the first, I believe Alex the first full time employee at Cansulta. And that's what brought me to you. But, yeah, James and I, when we were younger, we did not like each other at all. There were times I told James that Santa wasn't real. I stuck gum in James's hair when I was younger and they cut it out themselves with a pair of scissors. And infuriated my parents, I've been a bit of a problem child. We both actually have been kind of obnoxious to our parents, so maybe that was why my mom was yelling at me all the time. But yeah, now it's all good. Now we have a really deep relationship, and there's certain things that we can go to each other for that we can't really go to our parents for, just because of the age similarity and because the way that our brains work are very similar. Having that, I think, in a family is really helpful. I have that with a bunch of my cousins as well. I have 17 cousins on my mom's side of the family. So there is something to be said for that that changes the way you approach your professional and personal life.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:28:00]:
You got a whole panel of judges.
Ethan Lee [00:28:02]:
Yeah, that's what I find.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:28:04]:
I love it, but sometimes I'm like, I don't know if I wanted this many opinions.
Ethan Lee [00:28:08]:
Right. Yeah, it can be a detriment too.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:28:12]:
But what do you learn from your sibling?
Ethan Lee [00:28:17]:
That's a good question. I'll just share this I've developed agoraphobia. It's really hard for me to go places, and that's a byproduct of anxiety and depression. So I feel like a lot of the times I'm not developmentally where I need to be. But James is even. More independent than other people their age. They're two years younger than me, and I'm 25, and it's always an inspiration for me to just see how independent they are, how much they're able to do for themselves. And it's getting me to address those internal issues and maybe hopefully get to that point where I can be happier just out in the world. Instead of operating from a place of fear.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:28:58]:
In the sense of the age they appear, they're not a parent or a person from another generation. So you're getting inspired by someone who is more or less at the same life stage as you, and that's when you're like, oh, I'm so motivated now to try something else or to explore something that I wasn't sure about before. I'm thinking that siblings have that kind of impact on us because they are the closest, not only genetically, but also from a social perspective. We were raised around them and many of their sayings, many of their habits become this mirror for ourselves as well.
Ethan Lee [00:29:40]:
Especially if you're an overthinker. It can feel really lonely, I think, to be in the world and to experience this whole internal life and the power of having a sibling. Is there's certain experiences you can share with them. To feel less alone than I don't think is possible with maybe just a friend or maybe a parent or a peer. And that's really, I think, what gets to the core of what makes Jackie and Cassie's relationship special, but also just sibling relationships in general.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:30:07]:
Those two women were just so fun to interview because you realize that they are complementary. Each one had their own set of skills. They weren't the same at all. They each came up with, well, this is what I have to contribute to this endeavor. And not everyone can work with their sibling or a family member. And a lot of people say, oh, I will never go into business with family. Never. It's just not a good idea. And they make it work in a fantastic way. So thanks, guys. I mean, this was a fantastic conversation and such a great compliment to the episode that Ethan put together. And Ethan, you work so hard and I just want to say thank you. Without you, none of this would be possible, and I certainly could not do this without you. And Alex, thank you again for the opportunity and for being here today so we can get to hear you and your thoughts and your perspectives.
Ethan Lee [00:30:59]:
Well, thank you.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:31:03]:
We should have left it off with all the things. Exactly.
Ethan Lee [00:31:09]:
But I wanted to say thanks.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:31:13]:
Hope that we do have some people who will submit the form, send us an email and reach out because I'm super curious to know what people think about this format. Should we have a different approach every once in a while and kind of change things up? Just any feedback would be really welcome I'm really excited to hear from people so we can keep making the show as interesting as possible.
Ethan Lee [00:31:36]:
I'll just say this. I try to be as plugged into the podcast industry as I can, and I try to listen to as much as I can, and I'm a voracious listener. But within 10 seconds of talking to Katherin, I knew that she was an undiscovered podcast superstar. Really blew me away of like, how has this person never recorded a show before? Why are they not already doing podcasting? And I still think that Katherin is one of the most underappreciated hosts in the entire industry. That's not, you know, hyperbole. That's me honestly sharing what I think of Katherin's abilities. She's an absolutely phenomenal host and one of the best I've heard.
Alex Kapelos Peters [00:32:20]:
There we go. We said there had to be tears. I said, this is not going to be the episode if I don't have any. Thank you.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:32:30]:
I'm a crier. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this conversation, we would love it if you could please rate, review and subscribe to And So She Left wherever you listen. Your feedback helps us to better serve current listeners and reach new ones. To make it even easier, we're launching a quick feedback form. It's just five questions long, and it would help us immensely if you could please take a few minutes to fill it out. Your responses directly impact the creation of the show and we want to make the show that you want to hear. And So, She Left is made by Cansulta and Ethan Lee. We'll be back on Wednesday with a new episode. Our music is by Chris Zabriskie, edited for your enjoyment. You can find a list of all the songs you heard here in the episode notes. I'm Catherine Vasilopoulos, and thanks for listening.