With $500 in a basement in St. Catherines, Ontario, Jenn Harper started Cheekbone Beauty. She had zero experience working in the beauty space, making the leap from a career in the food industry’s hospitality and sales sectors. Like all great entrepreneurs, Jenn’s vision eventually rocketed the company to earn multi-million-dollar revenues. But unlike other founders, Jenn’s vision was literal: in January 2015, a dream popped into her head of three little indigenous girls, giggling and covered in lip gloss. Battling alcoholism and intergenerational trauma, she started Cheekbone on the side. But today, Cheekbone Beauty sells every kind of colour cosmetic you can think of in stores like Sephora and JC Penny. This is the story of how Jenn carved out a unique space in the nearly $600 billion beauty industry as a newcomer. You’ll hear how her cultural background served as a guiding light, her greatest advice for entrepreneurs venturing into new industries, and the practical methods she used to quickly scale her company to the next level.
**A GIFT FOR "And So, She Left" listeners: until December 8, 2023, get 20% off all regular priced items at www.cheekbonebeauty.com with code ASSL20**
With $500 in a basement in St. Catherines, Ontario, Jenn Harper started Cheekbone Beauty.
She had zero experience working in the beauty space, making the leap from a career in the food industry’s hospitality and sales sectors. Like all great entrepreneurs, Jenn’s vision eventually rocketed the company to earn multi-million-dollar revenues. But unlike other founders, Jenn’s vision was literal: in January 2015, a dream popped into her head of three little indigenous girls, giggling and covered in lip gloss.
Battling alcoholism and intergenerational trauma, she started Cheekbone on the side. But today, Cheekbone Beauty sells every kind of colour cosmetic you can think of in stores like Sephora and JC Penny.
This is the story of how Jenn carved out a unique space in the nearly $600 billion beauty industry as a newcomer. You’ll hear how her cultural background served as a guiding light, her greatest advice for entrepreneurs venturing into new industries, and the practical methods she used to quickly scale her company to the next level.
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Hosted by Katherin Vasilopoulos. Made by Cansulta and Ethan Lee.
Music by © Chris Zabriskie, published by You've Been a Wonderful Laugh Track (ASCAP).
Songs used in this episode include: "Air Hockey Saloon," "I Refuse to Accept That There's Nothing I Can Do About It," "The Lower Third Hall of Fame," " They Call It Nature," "I Should Have Been More Human," "Short Song 010923."
Used under the Creative Commons 4.0 International License
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:00:00]:
Do you have a vision for your business? We hope so. Evangelizing the problems that your business solves for your customers creates clear meaningful connection points between you and the people you serve. But say you're wandering into a new space, one where you have no experience whatsoever. You're walking on shaky ground. There's a laundry list of new things to learn. How do you communicate your vision then? With $500 in a basement in Saint Catharines, Ontario, Jenn Harper started Cheekbone Beauty. She had zero experience working in a beauty space, making the leap from a career in the food industry's hospitality and sales sector. Like all great entrepreneurs, Jenn's vision truly rocketed the company to earn multimillion dollar revenues.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:00:44]:
But unlike other founders, Jenn's vision was literal. In January 2015, a dream popped into her head of 3 little indigenous girls giggling and covered in lip gloss. That isn't to say Jenn's journey has been dreamlike. Battling alcoholism and intergenerational trauma. She started Cheekbone on the side. But today, Cheekbone Beauty sells every kind of color cosmetic you can think of in stores like Sephora and JCPenney, all while staying true to the brand's indigenous roots. Not bad for a 1st timer. You're about to hear how Jenn carved out a unique space in the nearly $600,000,000,000 beauty industry as a newcomer.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:01:28]:
You'll hear how her cultural background served as a guiding light, her greatest advice for entrepreneurs venturing into new industries and the practical methods she used to quickly scale her company to the next level. I'm Katherin Vasilopoulos, and this is And So, She Left, the podcast about incredible women founders and the wisdom they uncovered beyond the corporate world. It all started with a dream of 3 young indigenous girls. Jenn's peaks and valleys alike have been shaped by her Canadian indigeneity just like the rest of her family members. These experiences have molded her brand into what it is today, and they seemed as good a place to start as any.
Jenn Harper [00:02:23]:
Back in January of 2015, I had a dream of 3 native little girls covered in lip gloss. And really what I remember the most their rosy little cheeks, their brown skin. Grabbed my laptop that evening and starting to write out what is the foundation of our brand to this day, and that was to figure out how to make a product. And at the time, it was lip gloss and use a portion of the profits to support my community, which I really know what that looked like, but the whole idea that I had thought of back then was to create some kind of scholarship fund that we could support indigenous youth with. And fast forward to where we are today, I'm certainly proud that we've been able to do that. But when I think about the back a story in how and why and when this dream came in this part of my life. It's really interesting. 2 months prior to this dream, I had gotten I'm sober.
Jenn Harper [00:03:16]:
I had battled alcoholism for many years. On November 26, 2014, I got sober, and I've probably been sober ever since but 2 months later, I have this, what I call, a life changing dream. So entering the beauty industry with no experience whatsoever. Having no money, took that dream and started doing, you know, a couple years I really and in really developing and building the brand before we actually launched, in November of 2016.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:03:51]:
Tell me more about what you think the symbolism was of those three little girls that you dreamt about. I'm very curious because it coincided very well with a moment in your life where you were going through a a life changing moment of becoming sober.
Jenn Harper [00:04:03]:
Yeah. I guess I don't I've never thought too much about that. I just because when people ask about this dream, I'm like, I very often don't remember dreams, but obviously, certain times of our life thing different things happen. And so just remembering their joy and their giggling, that's really what stood out to me the most. And when I think about the brand that we've built and the kind of community that has surrounded our brand is really about people that are allies to our community and from our community that wanna help me bring that kind of joy back to our community, and I feel like that's what Cheekbone Beauty has been able to do. I also was learning around that time in 2015 that my grandparents were both survivors of residential school in Canada. And since then, we've certainly understood how those school systems have negatively impacted our First Nations, Metis, and Inuit communities in such a massive way and really learning that my my abuse of alcohol and addiction was part of this term that I learned, which was called generational or transgenerational trauma. When 1 group of people are impacted by an event that they're not equipped to deal with, and in this case, it was my grandparents.
Jenn Harper [00:05:20]:
And, ultimately, what generational trauma is, then it's passed on to the next generation. So my father, my aunties, my uncles, and then passed on to me and my siblings. And really tragically on this journey, I lost my brother, BJ, to suicide, which is horribly common among our First Nations communities, but, again, also a symptom, if you will, of the residential school system and its negative impacts. And so when building Cheekbone Beauty, what I really started to learn and discover was, wow, we have the power of individuals not only to change our own lives, but my goal was to support and help my community see that we could really craft a new life for ourselves. We can change the narrative of what people think First Nations people are in this country, and, I'm really proud that equal beauty has been a part of changing the narrative.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:06:11]:
Wow. That is quite the story. Having talked to so many, guests in the previous episodes, I find that, people adopt a lot of their entrepreneurial style to the values they got from their, either their mom or their dad watching them operate as their own business owners or even not related at all to business ownership. So tell me a bit more about your dad. What kind of lessons did you learn from him that maybe are now applicable to you as an entrepreneur.
Jenn Harper [00:06:40]:
I actually you know, I didn't grow up with him, and I spent more time with my mom. So if I think about what I've learned from my dad, to be perfectly honest, not having a very good relationship with my father until I was about 38 years old. I was estranged from him for most of my life. One, because he had his own issues with alcohol. And as a young person, I really didn't want anything, to do with that. So I could say there's anything I've learned it's how to be forgiving.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:07:10]:
And what about your mom?
Jenn Harper [00:07:13]:
My mom and I have have a great relationship, and she's taught me the most, and I would definitely say hard work. You know, watching my mom raise us as a single mom for so many years and the amount of hard work she puts in and regardless of the job. That's one thing I love about the lessons from my mother is no matter what she did, she did her best. And, I definitely took that into every role that I've that I've pursued.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:07:46]:
Tell me about what kind of mind shift you had to go through in order to move from, you know, a job in sales and marketing and going into becoming your own costs.
Jenn Harper [00:07:55]:
Yeah. There there was lots. So for 3 years, I still worked my full time day job selling seafood while building Cheekbone Beauty. I always say this is completely unsustainable. I do not recommend it. But it was how I had to sort of build and prove the concept first before anyone would obviously invest. I knew not having any experience in the beauty space, not being a celebrity. It's certainly things that would hold me back, and I had to prove that we had the potential to be something as a brand.
Jenn Harper [00:08:26]:
And so I recognize that that's why, working those insane hours for 3 years was really important for us to build. And I definitely knew that that would be required for me to actually ever feel comfortable taking funding or capital from any organization or, whether an investor, whether it's angel investors or institutional, I knew that I wanted to prove if this would even work first. When I think about the beauty space in general, there's no need for another brand to exist. There's so many, and it's so highly competitive. And so wanting to prove it out to myself first and market that was the path. And I really feel like there wasn't too much of a shift that needed to happen as a sales rep for the last 8 it was, like, 12 years as a sales rep. That is, like, such a great training ground for any entrepreneur. You're you're gonna get a lot of rejection.
Jenn Harper [00:09:26]:
You're gonna hear a lot of noes. And so I think building up my resiliency through that career was super helpful in in turning into an entrepreneur, But also recognizing the ability to create something, you know, all of the things that I really perhaps disliked about organizations that I worked for. When you become an entrepreneur, you have the ability to build whatever you want and build it how you would see or want your perfect company to be built. And so that's where I took, so much pride in was this idea, as an indigenous woman and as an Anishinaabe woman. We have some incredible teachings that come from our culture, and one is the 7 grandfather teachings. And so the core values that we've built at Cheekbone Beauty are are based on those 7 grandfather teachings, and they're really just values and principles, like respect, humility, love, courage, all of those things, and we've intertwined them into how we're building our organization.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:10:27]:
And so you were primed already with the the skills that you needed from having had your sales and marketing background, and it wasn't a a big leap then to move on to being your own boss. Tell me more about the challenges that you faced with, maybe funding or being in a very competitive, very saturated industry.
Jenn Harper [00:10:45]:
Oh my goodness. The competitive part, I don't think, will ever go away. The this is just such a highly competitive industry. We got really fortunate when when it came to funding and capital. 3 years in, at the end of 2018, almost the beginning of 2019, I met an organization called Raven Capital. And so they were the 1st indigenous led social impact fund. No fund from our communities has ever existed in in the way that Raven's built their fund. Not having experience in the space, but being an indigenous woman at the time in meeting them, we certainly got lucky with with a funding partner.
Jenn Harper [00:11:24]:
We started to connect, and like any funding relationship, it takes quite some time to get to know one another, and Raven really did believe in this This mission and idea that we've had for the brand. And so I was really grateful to have their support. And in August of 2019, we took, a convertible debt as by way of funding from them, and then I was able to quit my my job in seafood sales and go all in on the brand. And then that September of 2019, we also went on Dragon's Den, which was truly a pivotal moment for for the brand where we grew in an exponential way through our appearance on the show, And we've just been growing ever since.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:12:13]:
Especially since you didn't have any background in the cosmetics industry, how did you build that kind of knowledge base?
Jenn Harper [00:12:19]:
Yeah. So, yeah, so interesting. Literally started this business with that $500 in a corner of my basement in friends. And when I think about that, it is kind of wild because I had zero experience in this space. And now we're available in Sephora Canada in 56 locations as well as we're available in 609 locations of JCPenney in the United States. And so how a brand start with basically nothing and now ends up a multimillion dollar brand annual year brand. I think not knowing something sometimes, which which I really think when I do a lot of speaking engagements is the messaging that I want to express to people not knowing something about an industry can actually be a great way to start because you're looking at everything through this new lens, right, and and really being naive, almost childlike In a way, can help you see sort of that white space or what's missing in the industry. And so-
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:13:17]:
Yeah. Because you have fresh eyes. You don't know anything else, so you're going in with a blank slate.
Jenn Harper [00:13:21]:
Right? Exactly. And what was super helpful was this idea that I realized early on how actually easy it was for us to start. So the barrier to entry in these industries now because of globalization is is quite low. You can manufacture our product, put your logo or branding on it, and you can call yourself a business. However, if you're not part of formulating or manufacturing of any kind, then you're really doing something that anyone can do. And that was about a year in when I recognized I'm like, any fool could literally start a brand. Right? It's If you can last or make it successful, that's the key.
Jenn Harper [00:14:02]:
Right? And so that's where things like marketing become really powerful. But what I did see was all of the space that needed improvement in this industry. The beauty industry is, like, to blame for, I don't know, 6,000,000,000 pieces of plastic waste or waste annually. They're an enormously unsustainable industry. And so we started to look at it in this different way. If we were going to set ourselves apart from what everyone else was doing, then we had to think about things really differently, and that came down to innovation. And so with the help and support of more funding from Raven Capital, I said to them, I'm like, okay. The way we started is not the way this brand is gonna grow or be different.
Jenn Harper [00:14:49]:
I really am passionate about figuring out how we can make formulations that are unique and defined packaging options that are different from what exists in the world at this moment. And so went to them with this idea that we were gonna build our own lab and manufacture our own products and hire our own team of scientists, which we ended up doing. But I think to a lot of people's surprise in working on really incredible innovations like we're taking waste. We've worked on this project now for the last 3 years, from one of the wineries in Niagara, And we're extracting active ingredients from grape stems, skins, and seeds. And those actives have proven that this concept works and that we're gonna put them in future formulations. And the reason we did that was, one, it's such a great way to sustainably use waste. And then secondly, in the beauty industry, much like the food industry, really, your ingredient list is on the exterior of your packaging. Everybody can read that, and any good chemist can reverse engineer and try to reformulate your formulations.
Jenn Harper [00:15:56]:
And so even though we had our own team of scientists and chemists working with our partners and manufacturing our own formulations and our products, we knew that, at the very end of the day, it would be very simple for someone to copy of what we are doing and what we are working on.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:16:13]:
I'm listening to you talk now, and I'm imagining people you know, your consumers using your product. What kind of feedback have you been receiving from your users and how are you changing their lives?
Jenn Harper [00:16:26]:
Yeah. So with our products, my favorite thing is reading customer reviews, and I am honestly blown away at the court of our client. It's almost once we get a customer, we know we have the customer for life because they've just fallen in love with the product that we've made things so simple for people to use. In this in this beauty industry, I think for so long, it's always been like you needed the expert to help. Well, we've come at this like I'm an amateur. I wanna be able to do my makeup in 5 minutes, and I wanna look fantastic. And so we've created all of our products to meet that need, but also be safe for us and the planet at the same time. We're not housing things in plastic when we don't need to and multipurpose products.
Jenn Harper [00:17:14]:
That's the whole idea that we're bringing into the world as well. So, like, we have items that are meant to be used in multiple different ways so that someone doesn't have to buy, like, 16 different items. They could have a few and and get and achieve the looks that they want. But because it's been built by, someone who's considered an amateur in the space, it's made for people who are also amateurs but want the look of being done very professional. And so as a brand, we're built on 3 pillars, indigenous roots, being sustainable by nature because indigenous people are the OGs of sustainability for 1,000 and 1,000 of years and really innately have this deep relationship with all living things. And thirdly, we wanted to bring bold color to the clean category. I think in the clean beauty space for so long, it was, like, so muted. But we wanted to show, no, nature is just loaded with incredible color, and and those are the pigments.
Jenn Harper [00:18:08]:
And I love that the the new blush that we just launched, people are falling in love with how easy it is to use at the same time.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:18:16]:
Tell me what kind of advice you would give a a young entrepreneur or someone who is planning to launch into a space they know nothing about.
Jenn Harper [00:18:25]:
Wow. Yeah. Such a great question. I think the one reason that Cheekbone Beauty is successful is because we have consistently showed up. And I think consistency can be underrated. Every day for the last 7 years, I've woken up and done something to push the brand forward, and our team then now that it's a team and not just me. It does something to move the brand forward, and we are consistently sort of moving in that forward direction. And so I would say consistency.
Jenn Harper [00:18:57]:
And then secondly, just passion. Like, making sure that the thing that you're working on, this idea that you're building or project, whatever it is that you would wake up in the middle of the night and do it for free because you need that kind of passion to make something succeed.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:19:16]:
Oh, that's nice. What are you the most passionate about in your in your business?
Jenn Harper [00:19:21]:
The thing that I'm personally most passionate is bringing this idea of representation on the grand scale. We were able to do some in store eventing at because we were working on a campaign with them. And the 1 morning, I walked into the Eaton Center, and I looked up and they do these massive billboards like the size of a transport truck around the top of the the window features in the mall. And they had our a branded picture, and it said Cheekbone Beauty now available at Sephora. And I was, like, super emotional because as a young I loved going to the Eaton Center, but unfortunately had some negative experiences there. My father being accused stealing as a little girl or him arguing with the shopkeeper about our status card. And so never in a 1000000 years did my little mind think that I would one day own a brand available in an organization like Sephora? Because they are the largest beauty retailer in the entire world. And those little thoughts, they didn't come into my head as a child, and I and how unfortunate is that? And so that evening, I got to do the eventing in the Eaton Centre location, and we were just they are putting blush and really connecting with the Sephora community and clients.
Jenn Harper [00:20:33]:
But sure enough, in walks this family, and they're Anishinaabe or Ojibwe like me. And this little girl is 12 years old or 13, and she already had this spunk and joy that I don't remember having at her age. And she was laughing, and she was so excited to tell me about her TikTok account and how she was going viral, so she had to shut it down. And her little brother was like, no. You're not. And I was just enjoying listening to these 2 banter. And driving home that night back to Saint Catherine's, I was like, oh my gosh. This is it.
Jenn Harper [00:21:07]:
This is why this matters so much. Like, that little girl and that little boy are never gonna not be able to wonder what is possible for them because they just met someone who looks like them, who comes from a community that they come from, doing something Like owning a brand that's available in a Sephora, and that's what I think is most special because we all know when we can see it, we can be it.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:21:33]:
That's so true. You know, you need representation. You need to see adults in your world as a child, adults who are similar to you or that you can look up to. And when that doesn't exist in that space, there's, it's almost like a dream gap where you don't know if you can get there or not. So you're offering this to a whole generation of children and young people. Tell me about, the, one of the biggest problems that you have encountered and that you were able to overcome.
Jenn Harper [00:22:01]:
I think this idea of not ever knowing how it's gonna happen. I think now because I'm in this sort of the entrepreneur ecosystem and start up communities and scale up communities that not thinking there was gonna be enough money or how is this going to happen. And it's still always a challenge capital. We're going as a organization for 1st ever seeking outside funding for people to be able to now become a part of Cheekbone Beauty and selling shares. So we're going at 1st series a, in the next couple of weeks, which is really exciting. And then also realizing that there is a lot of capital out there and a lot of people, whether angels or institutional or private or social funding that's available. They're there as long as I think your business has something that the world doesn't yet know it needs. That's exciting.
Jenn Harper [00:22:57]:
At the same time, as much as it's always been this idea of a challenge in in my mind. I also think the challenge is seeing that the opportunity is there. It's just how we're gonna get it.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:23:08]:
So, Jenn, tell me about what it is that you look forward to.
Jenn Harper [00:23:12]:
I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more businesses succeed, whether it's in the indigenous business space or women owned and operated businesses, we know for so many generations that women don't receive the same amount of funding or investment as our counterparts. And I think I believe it's less than 2% funding goes to people of color, and it's less than, like, 9% of funding goes to women. And so there's a lot of room for improvement, and I'm looking forward to seeing that change.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:23:45]:
And I'm hoping that people listening to this episode will get inspired if they're on the fence, because it it is difficult to leave a a a well paying job, something that, you know, we call the the golden handcuffs, where if you have a good pay, a good seniority, vacation, benefits, everything. You know, needing to leave that to start a passion project. It's not always easy, especially if you have dependents, etcetera. So in your case, did you feel that? Did you feel that, I'm on the fence, I should leave, I should not? What was the thought process?
Jenn Harper [00:24:18]:
Yeah. No. And I'm, you know, very fortunate. I have an incredible husband, that does very well financially, so I really didn't have that feeling. And I felt like we I was already at a point in my life where I worked my ass off for 25 years, and so we owned multiple homes. I have nice cars and all of the things. And it's when you get to a point in life you realize that material things really like, it didn't seem as important. So I always knew I wasn't starting Cheekbone Beauty for money regardless of, I guess how wealthy people think they can get or be.
Jenn Harper [00:24:54]:
That was not the reasoning, and I actually took, yeah, a pay cut to do this, but It didn't feel like it mattered. And maybe I'm, again, super fortunate that I had a partner that was it was okay, and we're going to be okay regardless of what happened. But I definitely can see a lot of friends that are actually single moms that jump into entrepreneurship. It is a big struggle, But also listening to them and that we share that view of, like, no. This matters so much more than that, and maybe I have to make a a couple sacrifices. And from my husband's end, he was like, what? You're gonna do what? And, it did take him a couple years. I had to promise we weren't going on fancy vacations for a few years. He was supportive, but also scary.
Jenn Harper [00:25:39]:
I think it was actually more scary for him, to be honest. He's like, you're gonna give up your salary to do this And make nobody for this amount of time.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:25:48]:
And what's interesting is, you know, when you have a partner who is supportive and wants to dream along with you, like, what does that make you feel?
Jenn Harper [00:25:57]:
Yeah. I don't at some point, I was like, he's definitely not the risk taker like me. I'm the one who's like, yeah, let's do it. So that's good because it's a balance. Right? It it's certainly a balance, and he's very analytical and logical, which is when you are more of a visionary style entrepreneur, you need someone to balance you out. And it's also many times, like, this past summer, we went on a a family holiday, and my daughter who is 17 was reading Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, and he founded Nike. And, it was this journey of how Nike became what it is today. And I remember my daughter literally came to me for the 1st time and said, mom, oh my goodness.
Jenn Harper [00:26:40]:
I finally get what you're doing and why some days you're like, the company is failing. We're gonna lose everything. Because in the book, which I've also read, Phil almost loses Nike, like, 4 times, because you run out of money or you don't know This thing you were building and something doesn't work out, and it was really, an interesting moment that she read that and my husband's read it. And so now we are certainly much more of an entrepreneurial family that they understand because of, you know, the experience of others, thankfully that this is normal when you're an entrepreneur that you may lose everything one day, or it can, you know, the next day be like, wow, we just landed this incredible deal and now everything's okay again.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:27:21]:
Yes. Yes. You're constantly riding a wave. You're constantly on this precarious balancing act. And sometimes you're only as good as your last job or you're only as good as the next contract. It's it's very precarious as you say. And then I really believe that the the more resilient entrepreneurs just know how to be good surfers for lack of a better term.
Jenn Harper [00:27:44]:
It's a great analogy.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:27:47]:
And, you know, sometimes the ocean spits you out and brings you back to shore, but you gotta get back in there at some point.
Jenn Harper [00:27:52]:
Yeah.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:27:53]:
And it seems that that's what you've been doing. You have the skills, and you have this passion. And all of this together is a wonderful recipe for bringing to the world a new concept and a new product and something that is eco friendly and it is inclusive. So is this what you imagined it to be?
Jenn Harper [00:28:11]:
No. I'll be 100% honest. I had no idea. Like, I knew I wanted this brand, but to where we are today from those early days, I had no idea what was possible or how it would turn out. And I love that because I think that's even the next 5 years in you know, we have these, you know, strategic plans and visions and the the way we think things are gonna go, and it doesn't always turn out exactly like that plan, which I think is the really exciting part.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:28:44]:
Thank you so much to Jenn Harper. You can learn more about Cheekbone Beauty through the link in the episode description. Jenn has also kindly offered our listeners 20% off all Cheekbone Beauty products. Click the link below and use the code ASSL twenty at checkout. If you like the show, please rate, review, and subscribe to And So, She Left wherever you listen. Your feedback helps us to better serve our current listeners and reach new ones. You can also fill out our quick feedback form. It's just 5 questions long, and your response helps us to make the show that you want to hear.
Katherin Vasilopoulos [00:29:17]:
And so she left is made by Cansulta and Ethan Lee. Will be back next Wednesday with a new episode. Our music is by Chris Zabriskie edited for your enjoyment. You can find a list of all the songs you heard here in the episode notes. I'm Katharine Vasilopulos, and thanks for listening.